1 00:00:26,710 --> 00:00:23,780 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 2 00:00:29,930 --> 00:00:26,720 episode number 24 the sixth of March 3 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:29,940 2009 Richard Saunders with you once 4 00:00:34,700 --> 00:00:32,730 again this week's episode we have an 5 00:00:37,910 --> 00:00:34,710 interview with Professor Richard Wiseman 6 00:00:40,070 --> 00:00:37,920 famous for his quirkology and then we'll 7 00:00:42,530 --> 00:00:40,080 have a little segment I recorded at 8 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:42,540 Sydney skeptics in the pub where we talk 9 00:00:48,590 --> 00:00:45,510 about quackery and hear a song from Dave 10 00:00:50,690 --> 00:00:48,600 the happy singer now a big thank you to 11 00:00:54,590 --> 00:00:50,700 everybody who listens to the show and 12 00:00:57,710 --> 00:00:54,600 subscribes and a plea if you really like 13 00:01:01,490 --> 00:00:57,720 the show let people know blog about us 14 00:01:03,740 --> 00:01:01,500 write reviews on iTunes about us send 15 00:01:05,810 --> 00:01:03,750 emails about us scribble on walls sing 16 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:05,820 songs about us whatever you'd like to do 17 00:01:11,420 --> 00:01:09,570 we would really appreciate it so having 18 00:01:14,030 --> 00:01:11,430 said that let's get on to this week's 19 00:01:19,610 --> 00:01:14,040 episode and our interview with Professor 20 00:01:22,399 --> 00:01:19,620 Richard Wiseman Professor Richard 21 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:22,409 Wiseman is based at the University of 22 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:25,170 Hartford share in the UK and has gained 23 00:01:29,170 --> 00:01:27,330 an international reputation for research 24 00:01:32,750 --> 00:01:29,180 into quirky areas of psychology 25 00:01:35,300 --> 00:01:32,760 including deception humor luck and the 26 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:35,310 paranormal professor Wiseman has written 27 00:01:39,980 --> 00:01:37,290 the luck factor a best-selling book 28 00:01:41,950 --> 00:01:39,990 exploring the lives and minds of lucky 29 00:01:44,420 --> 00:01:41,960 people his latest book quirkology 30 00:01:47,270 --> 00:01:44,430 explores a curious science of everyday 31 00:01:53,270 --> 00:01:47,280 life including the psychology of lying 32 00:01:59,310 --> 00:01:57,210 and we're joined by Richard Wiseman our 33 00:02:02,160 --> 00:01:59,320 good morning or good afternoon or good 34 00:02:03,750 --> 00:02:02,170 evening i think richard wiseman good 35 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:03,760 evening actually yes we're we're talking 36 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:06,310 nine o'clock and evening my time so yep 37 00:02:09,719 --> 00:02:07,570 good morning to you and good evening 38 00:02:13,020 --> 00:02:09,729 from me it sounds like the Two Ronnies 39 00:02:15,540 --> 00:02:13,030 almost doesn't and then it's great very 40 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:15,550 impoverished version of the two if the 41 00:02:20,250 --> 00:02:18,490 team Richard if if you're being very 42 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:20,260 kind about how you might label us yes 43 00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:22,930 that's right that's right now I have a 44 00:02:26,790 --> 00:02:25,120 copy of I'm just gonna jump straight 45 00:02:29,250 --> 00:02:26,800 away in having a quick chat about your 46 00:02:30,750 --> 00:02:29,260 book quirkology I have a copy in front 47 00:02:34,949 --> 00:02:30,760 of me at the moment and it's got a very 48 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:34,959 clever cover the cover is indeed an 49 00:02:38,820 --> 00:02:37,330 optical illusion which you described 50 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:38,830 later on in the book is that the only 51 00:02:44,610 --> 00:02:40,930 cover for the book or is there other 52 00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:44,620 covers and was that your idea um the I 53 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:46,750 think there are several other covers but 54 00:02:52,350 --> 00:02:50,170 that is my favorite cover and it was 55 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:52,360 indeed my idea so there are it's a 56 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:54,850 particular clever one those I'm proud of 57 00:02:58,920 --> 00:02:57,250 it if there are actually two experiments 58 00:03:00,870 --> 00:02:58,930 or two bits of psychology built into the 59 00:03:02,789 --> 00:03:00,880 cover the first one is the optical 60 00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:02,799 illusion as you say that obviously we're 61 00:03:06,150 --> 00:03:04,390 on the radio here so people won't be 62 00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:06,160 able to see it basically so here human 63 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:08,500 face that is you turn upside down kind 64 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:10,060 of transformed into a particularly ugly 65 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:12,730 and bizarre face but an important thing 66 00:03:17,910 --> 00:03:15,010 and this is the secret experiment is 67 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:17,920 that it's a woman's face and on half of 68 00:03:23,970 --> 00:03:19,930 the books her pupils have been enlarged 69 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:23,980 just by a tiny tiny amount and then we 70 00:03:28,110 --> 00:03:25,810 can track where the men or women were 71 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:28,120 buying those two different covers and we 72 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:29,650 found that around about twenty percent 73 00:03:33,210 --> 00:03:31,450 more guys brought the cover with the 74 00:03:34,949 --> 00:03:33,220 enlarged pupils even they had they had 75 00:03:36,930 --> 00:03:34,959 no idea that's why they bought that 76 00:03:38,580 --> 00:03:36,940 version of the book so we can add a 77 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:38,590 little secret experiment go into the 78 00:03:45,420 --> 00:03:41,260 book as well see the trouble is I only 79 00:03:48,569 --> 00:03:45,430 have one copy and I can't hear it I 80 00:03:50,729 --> 00:03:48,579 think yet if you turn it over has it got 81 00:03:53,940 --> 00:03:50,739 a black or yellow bar across the the 82 00:03:56,780 --> 00:03:53,950 back of it by the barcode like okay then 83 00:03:59,400 --> 00:03:56,790 in which case you have the enlarged but 84 00:04:01,949 --> 00:03:59,410 yet you have the large version there so 85 00:04:04,979 --> 00:04:01,959 there we go you may be a participant in 86 00:04:05,940 --> 00:04:04,989 ER yeah although I must say it was a 87 00:04:08,910 --> 00:04:05,950 gift from 88 00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:08,920 female so there you go other the reason 89 00:04:12,540 --> 00:04:10,720 she gave it away is she see that woman 90 00:04:14,729 --> 00:04:12,550 on the front as a threat because you're 91 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:14,739 such an attractive woman to other guys 92 00:04:19,009 --> 00:04:16,570 so all fits in with my theory which I've 93 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:19,019 just made up to fit the data there I 94 00:04:23,610 --> 00:04:21,970 believe you somehow I believe every word 95 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:23,620 you're saying so there you go from I 96 00:04:28,219 --> 00:04:25,810 mean not only and that's just a cover 97 00:04:30,510 --> 00:04:28,229 that's just the cover the fun and games 98 00:04:32,159 --> 00:04:30,520 you haven't even started on the book 99 00:04:34,530 --> 00:04:32,169 they're already it fascinating that 100 00:04:36,270 --> 00:04:34,540 really is and I take it that book is 101 00:04:38,580 --> 00:04:36,280 done remarkably well for you it's a tie 102 00:04:41,340 --> 00:04:38,590 in with your website more or less isn't 103 00:04:44,580 --> 00:04:41,350 it yeah well the website there is to 104 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:44,590 work to promote it and it's kind of I 105 00:04:50,310 --> 00:04:46,690 got a proud of the quirkology because 106 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:50,320 it's about 10-15 years of my work put 107 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:52,690 into the single volume and it covers a 108 00:04:57,060 --> 00:04:55,090 huge amount of my stuff from the fire 109 00:04:59,760 --> 00:04:57,070 walking through to the line through some 110 00:05:01,530 --> 00:04:59,770 of the parapsychology and it just really 111 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:01,540 is the type of psychology that I adore 112 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:03,370 and I just get terribly excited about 113 00:05:06,870 --> 00:05:04,690 and it just makes me sad there's not 114 00:05:08,430 --> 00:05:06,880 more of it out there and I just thought 115 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:08,440 you know it's nice to put into a single 116 00:05:12,090 --> 00:05:10,510 volume it has gone all around the world 117 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:12,100 i think we've sold in about 30 different 118 00:05:16,620 --> 00:05:15,010 languages now and it's just so great to 119 00:05:18,150 --> 00:05:16,630 get feedback particularly for students 120 00:05:19,830 --> 00:05:18,160 who say you know i'm into psychology 121 00:05:21,510 --> 00:05:19,840 because of that book you know did 122 00:05:23,670 --> 00:05:21,520 wonderful it's interesting you should 123 00:05:26,340 --> 00:05:23,680 mention fire walking with because the 124 00:05:27,990 --> 00:05:26,350 first time i met you was in fact almost 125 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:28,000 10 years ago here in sydney australia 126 00:05:32,790 --> 00:05:30,490 when you were speaking at the third 127 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:32,800 international world skeptics meeting or 128 00:05:37,770 --> 00:05:35,050 convention and that's why i remember i 129 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:37,780 came across as an eighteen-year-old ten 130 00:05:43,350 --> 00:05:40,810 years ago and we had a great time had a 131 00:05:44,730 --> 00:05:43,360 great time right it was it was a 132 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:44,740 marvelous time you did a little bit of 133 00:05:48,390 --> 00:05:46,810 cheesy stage magic but that the best 134 00:05:51,029 --> 00:05:48,400 thing about your talk and what do you 135 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:51,039 mean cheesy stage magic that was highly 136 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:53,410 rehearse extremely classy act I'll have 137 00:05:56,820 --> 00:05:54,970 you know I traveled the world with act 138 00:05:59,279 --> 00:05:56,830 as to keep moving all the time for 139 00:06:01,260 --> 00:05:59,289 obvious reasons but yes cheesy stage 140 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:01,270 magic can't believe it I think we're 141 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:03,010 finishing the interview now all right go 142 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:04,330 on and carry on this is this give you 143 00:06:08,159 --> 00:06:06,370 another five minutes very generous of 144 00:06:11,010 --> 00:06:08,169 you anyway you're doing this cheesy 145 00:06:14,219 --> 00:06:11,020 stage magic but the best thing the best 146 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:14,229 thing you did and which really caught my 147 00:06:17,350 --> 00:06:15,849 attention in the crowd at the time of 148 00:06:18,730 --> 00:06:17,360 course is you 149 00:06:20,860 --> 00:06:18,740 I think was one of the first times you 150 00:06:23,860 --> 00:06:20,870 showed publicly or screen publicly the 151 00:06:26,350 --> 00:06:23,870 famous firewalking video where you had 152 00:06:28,330 --> 00:06:26,360 the gurus who sincerely believed in 153 00:06:30,339 --> 00:06:28,340 magical powers walk across the pit of 154 00:06:31,809 --> 00:06:30,349 fire now for the three people out there 155 00:06:33,700 --> 00:06:31,819 listening who may not have seen this 156 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:33,710 video is probably on YouTube everywhere 157 00:06:37,749 --> 00:06:35,650 by now could you explain that for us 158 00:06:40,899 --> 00:06:37,759 that was something I did with the BBC 159 00:06:43,300 --> 00:06:40,909 and over the years I always worked with 160 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:43,310 them to create experiments and science 161 00:06:47,770 --> 00:06:45,770 and psychology shows and one day I had 162 00:06:49,929 --> 00:06:47,780 the idea of creating the world's longest 163 00:06:51,730 --> 00:06:49,939 firewall to test these paranormalists 164 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:51,740 who said that it was nothing to do with 165 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:53,330 physics i mean the physics of it is very 166 00:06:56,589 --> 00:06:54,650 little heat is transferred from the 167 00:06:58,300 --> 00:06:56,599 coals to your feet um but they were 168 00:07:00,399 --> 00:06:58,310 saying no no no that's not the case we 169 00:07:02,140 --> 00:07:00,409 use our mental abilities to put a kind 170 00:07:04,570 --> 00:07:02,150 of energetic force field around their 171 00:07:06,459 --> 00:07:04,580 body and yet we're still only walking to 172 00:07:08,589 --> 00:07:06,469 10 or 12 feet that scientist said well 173 00:07:10,390 --> 00:07:08,599 you'll be perfectly safe so I went into 174 00:07:11,860 --> 00:07:10,400 the BBC meeting and said come on guys 175 00:07:14,409 --> 00:07:11,870 why don't we test this by building the 176 00:07:16,390 --> 00:07:14,419 world's longest fire walk still to this 177 00:07:19,059 --> 00:07:16,400 day I was amazed that they turned around 178 00:07:21,850 --> 00:07:19,069 and said yep good idea let's do that 179 00:07:23,379 --> 00:07:21,860 let's test test them live I think the 180 00:07:25,180 --> 00:07:23,389 rationale was that either these guys 181 00:07:27,219 --> 00:07:25,190 will get to the end of the fire walk and 182 00:07:29,379 --> 00:07:27,229 therefore overturn bird the known laws 183 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:29,389 of physics or they would burn themselves 184 00:07:34,899 --> 00:07:31,370 very badly trying and either way it was 185 00:07:37,510 --> 00:07:34,909 going to be good television so we set up 186 00:07:40,029 --> 00:07:37,520 this huge firewalkers 50 or 60 feet long 187 00:07:42,579 --> 00:07:40,039 live these paranormalists spend the day 188 00:07:43,629 --> 00:07:42,589 meditating they were professionals in 189 00:07:45,430 --> 00:07:43,639 the sense they made their living by 190 00:07:47,110 --> 00:07:45,440 teaching meditation techniques and then 191 00:07:49,420 --> 00:07:47,120 getting people to walk across the fire 192 00:07:51,610 --> 00:07:49,430 and exactly as predicted by physics 193 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:51,620 around 15 20 feet in they burn 194 00:07:56,110 --> 00:07:53,810 themselves in order to jump off the 195 00:07:57,189 --> 00:07:56,120 coals they needed to dig deep dig deeper 196 00:07:59,140 --> 00:07:57,199 into the coals and that's where the 197 00:08:01,149 --> 00:07:59,150 really hot stuff is so they did get 198 00:08:02,559 --> 00:08:01,159 second-degree burns and so the final 199 00:08:05,439 --> 00:08:02,569 shots are them on the ground being 200 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:05,449 attended to by paramedics and so it's a 201 00:08:09,730 --> 00:08:07,610 very startling piece of footage i have 202 00:08:13,059 --> 00:08:09,740 shown as you say all the way around the 203 00:08:15,879 --> 00:08:13,069 world and adds in the book as well and 204 00:08:18,070 --> 00:08:15,889 again what i like about it is that it's 205 00:08:19,990 --> 00:08:18,080 an unusual twist on the fire walking 206 00:08:22,450 --> 00:08:20,000 skeptics been doing that for quite a 207 00:08:23,980 --> 00:08:22,460 long time and those demos are great but 208 00:08:25,300 --> 00:08:23,990 what I'd like to do is come along and 209 00:08:27,129 --> 00:08:25,310 just kind of put a little bit a 210 00:08:28,959 --> 00:08:27,139 different twist on it and and that was 211 00:08:30,910 --> 00:08:28,969 nice to see a paranormal claim being 212 00:08:33,220 --> 00:08:30,920 tested and shot down in such a sword 213 00:08:35,140 --> 00:08:33,230 dramatic way now of course we here in 214 00:08:37,660 --> 00:08:35,150 Australia and those strangers to having 215 00:08:40,420 --> 00:08:37,670 all sorts of interesting excuses 216 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:40,430 presented to us upon the failure of of 217 00:08:44,770 --> 00:08:43,250 claimants be awarded divining or talking 218 00:08:48,250 --> 00:08:44,780 to the dead or whatever the case may be 219 00:08:51,610 --> 00:08:48,260 did your firewalking gurus rationalize 220 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:51,620 their failure somehow I mean that has 221 00:08:54,850 --> 00:08:53,090 been my experience as well I should just 222 00:08:56,710 --> 00:08:54,860 say over the years I've tested lots of 223 00:08:58,450 --> 00:08:56,720 mediums and psychics and when they've 224 00:09:00,820 --> 00:08:58,460 all failed the test as they have i've 225 00:09:02,470 --> 00:09:00,830 yet to have any single one go all that's 226 00:09:05,710 --> 00:09:02,480 it I don't have these abilities here 227 00:09:07,180 --> 00:09:05,720 silly me then as you say they're very 228 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:07,190 good as we all are actually 229 00:09:12,490 --> 00:09:08,930 rationalizing away leave the evidence 230 00:09:13,570 --> 00:09:12,500 and so yes with the fire walking some of 231 00:09:15,610 --> 00:09:13,580 them thought they didn't have enough 232 00:09:17,650 --> 00:09:15,620 time to meditate others thought that the 233 00:09:19,270 --> 00:09:17,660 cameras are put them off there was one 234 00:09:21,940 --> 00:09:19,280 woman who is very interesting who 235 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:21,950 refused to walk having seen her 236 00:09:25,510 --> 00:09:23,690 colleagues burnt and I said to her 237 00:09:27,070 --> 00:09:25,520 afterwards why was that and she said 238 00:09:28,930 --> 00:09:27,080 well actually for me it's about having 239 00:09:31,540 --> 00:09:28,940 with guardian angel with me other 240 00:09:33,610 --> 00:09:31,550 protects me from the the heat and just 241 00:09:35,470 --> 00:09:33,620 before I was about to walk my guardian 242 00:09:37,300 --> 00:09:35,480 angel vanished and so therefore I wasn't 243 00:09:39,070 --> 00:09:37,310 prepared to walk which I thought was a 244 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:39,080 kind of interesting guardian angel 245 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:40,370 because it's that one was only there for 246 00:09:45,220 --> 00:09:41,930 the good times as soon as they go and 247 00:09:46,810 --> 00:09:45,230 get tough they leave so yeah it's oh 248 00:09:49,660 --> 00:09:46,820 yeah exactly as we've seen over the 249 00:09:51,250 --> 00:09:49,670 years we sort of test do nothing to 250 00:09:53,650 --> 00:09:51,260 change the mind the people who claim 251 00:09:56,770 --> 00:09:53,660 these abilities I think what they do do 252 00:09:58,840 --> 00:09:56,780 is change the minds of the open minded 253 00:10:00,640 --> 00:09:58,850 public you see that and then suddenly 254 00:10:02,260 --> 00:10:00,650 start to doubt we're never going to 255 00:10:03,850 --> 00:10:02,270 attach the extreme believers because 256 00:10:04,990 --> 00:10:03,860 like the claimants themselves they're 257 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:05,000 going to have a reason to say all this 258 00:10:08,890 --> 00:10:06,890 test wasn't fair but I think there's a 259 00:10:10,870 --> 00:10:08,900 vast majority of people who are open 260 00:10:13,060 --> 00:10:10,880 minded who do see this stuff and it does 261 00:10:15,610 --> 00:10:13,070 change their minds yes you're quite 262 00:10:18,250 --> 00:10:15,620 right I think that the best thing we can 263 00:10:20,260 --> 00:10:18,260 do is when we filming these or 264 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:20,270 presenting Liza's keep in mind the open 265 00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:23,690 minded public out there because we have 266 00:10:28,290 --> 00:10:25,760 yet to have the experience where a 267 00:10:30,730 --> 00:10:28,300 believer said to us you know well I've 268 00:10:32,350 --> 00:10:30,740 completely failed this test gee I must 269 00:10:36,010 --> 00:10:32,360 seriously question my own magical 270 00:10:38,590 --> 00:10:36,020 abilities maybe one day it'll happen but 271 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:38,600 putting these things online as that 272 00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:41,690 video no doubt is you're finding great 273 00:10:46,689 --> 00:10:44,480 success with your own videos on YouTube 274 00:10:48,790 --> 00:10:46,699 and I think probably your most famous 275 00:10:51,129 --> 00:10:48,800 one would be the color change and I've 276 00:10:53,259 --> 00:10:51,139 actually seen other people completely 277 00:10:55,090 --> 00:10:53,269 copy that and then credit you right at 278 00:10:57,100 --> 00:10:55,100 the end of their presentation are you 279 00:11:00,939 --> 00:10:57,110 surprised how popular that particular 280 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:00,949 video has become our after Lee amazed 281 00:11:05,710 --> 00:11:03,170 utterly amazed i had the idea for it in 282 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:05,720 my head for about six months I you have 283 00:11:10,030 --> 00:11:07,610 to get it just right and I kept changing 284 00:11:11,530 --> 00:11:10,040 all bits of it my head re running it and 285 00:11:14,110 --> 00:11:11,540 thinking no that's not quite right i 286 00:11:16,030 --> 00:11:14,120 mean people haven't seen it basically it 287 00:11:17,740 --> 00:11:16,040 looks like a card trick actually there's 288 00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:17,750 something else going the camera work has 289 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:20,000 to be very precise on it so i was 290 00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:22,250 carrying around the idea and then one 291 00:11:26,650 --> 00:11:24,800 day I just said to the team in the lab I 292 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:26,660 think that's just get together and film 293 00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:28,250 this thing and see what it looks like 294 00:11:32,139 --> 00:11:29,839 and we spent a pretty much a day for all 295 00:11:34,569 --> 00:11:32,149 day filming it there's around about 60 296 00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:34,579 takes of it and eventually ended up some 297 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:37,040 footage we liked and just stuck it out 298 00:11:42,370 --> 00:11:39,050 there had no idea at all whether it 299 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:42,380 would take off it did it became a viral 300 00:11:48,069 --> 00:11:45,410 video because of that a platform for 301 00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:48,079 some of the other quirkology videos as 302 00:11:53,230 --> 00:11:51,680 well so yeah it is amazing and the 303 00:11:55,900 --> 00:11:53,240 reason I go into psychology all those 304 00:11:57,759 --> 00:11:55,910 years ago was I open textbooks which we 305 00:11:59,800 --> 00:11:57,769 used to have at the time before the 306 00:12:02,019 --> 00:11:59,810 internet came along with optical 307 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:02,029 illusions in and got rekted about these 308 00:12:06,309 --> 00:12:04,370 illusions and I hope that some of the 309 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:06,319 quality videos will act in the same way 310 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:08,510 so when I see students or anyone else 311 00:12:12,519 --> 00:12:10,610 problem and doing their own versions 312 00:12:14,379 --> 00:12:12,529 happened with color change card trick 313 00:12:16,269 --> 00:12:14,389 and I think the prediction one as well I 314 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:16,279 think it's great you know I just see it 315 00:12:21,610 --> 00:12:19,250 as people get involved in psychology and 316 00:12:23,050 --> 00:12:21,620 science and just having a good time with 317 00:12:25,150 --> 00:12:23,060 it and I hopefully some of those people 318 00:12:27,730 --> 00:12:25,160 go and study at the universities and so 319 00:12:29,050 --> 00:12:27,740 on so yeah I am amazed I think it's out 320 00:12:30,639 --> 00:12:29,060 of the whole channels up to about five 321 00:12:32,620 --> 00:12:30,649 and half a million views now so it's 322 00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:32,630 wonderful that's that's that's that's 323 00:12:37,420 --> 00:12:34,639 great because when I saw that for the 324 00:12:39,250 --> 00:12:37,430 first time and I'm not going to say what 325 00:12:41,019 --> 00:12:39,260 happens because there may be people out 326 00:12:44,590 --> 00:12:41,029 there who need to discover this for 327 00:12:47,170 --> 00:12:44,600 themselves but I didn't see the trick 328 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:47,180 let me just say the trick or the gimmick 329 00:12:51,250 --> 00:12:49,010 or we both know what we're talking about 330 00:12:53,199 --> 00:12:51,260 completely went by me and so when I 331 00:12:56,050 --> 00:12:53,209 watched it again and I saw what really 332 00:12:58,300 --> 00:12:56,060 happened I was flawed but I must say the 333 00:13:01,510 --> 00:12:58,310 Rilla and the basketball one is one I 334 00:13:04,180 --> 00:13:01,520 picked up on but I was completely 335 00:13:07,660 --> 00:13:04,190 knocked out by the magical mirror one 336 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:07,670 you have whether the hand is hair it 337 00:13:13,810 --> 00:13:09,850 took me a while to figure that one out 338 00:13:15,940 --> 00:13:13,820 but yeah again yeah I wanted some time 339 00:13:18,250 --> 00:13:15,950 to produce a video something vanished 340 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:18,260 but still remained in full sites that 341 00:13:22,060 --> 00:13:19,850 was the little goal that was how I had 342 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:22,070 in my head and I should explain that 343 00:13:26,020 --> 00:13:24,050 come from a background as a magician and 344 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:26,030 awesome magicians make things vanish all 345 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:27,650 the time so I wanted this idea of a 346 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:29,450 vanished but the object remained in full 347 00:13:33,340 --> 00:13:31,370 sight and and that's where the mirror 348 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:33,350 one came from and also after the other 349 00:13:38,770 --> 00:13:35,650 explico ecology website these things are 350 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:38,780 driven by things I've seen so there's a 351 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:42,050 very famous remark routine with a mirror 352 00:13:47,830 --> 00:13:45,170 all strove that my own ticket big year 353 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:47,840 and and it's just nice to be able to 354 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:50,510 contribute stop and YouTube gives you a 355 00:13:55,060 --> 00:13:53,090 plaque which it wasn't around five you 356 00:13:57,220 --> 00:13:55,070 know ten years ago and put something 357 00:13:59,170 --> 00:13:57,230 else and some essential e-way 358 00:14:00,700 --> 00:13:59,180 distributing Lee short clips and 359 00:14:03,790 --> 00:14:00,710 hopefully getting other people excited 360 00:14:06,070 --> 00:14:03,800 what excites me absolutely and I think 361 00:14:07,990 --> 00:14:06,080 YouTube is a brilliant little format for 362 00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:08,000 that because the videos don't have to be 363 00:14:12,610 --> 00:14:09,350 super high quality and they're only 364 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:12,620 short and you can produce one in a day 365 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:14,690 and have hundreds and thousands if not 366 00:14:19,810 --> 00:14:18,650 millions of people watching it now one 367 00:14:22,450 --> 00:14:19,820 of the things I wouldn't mind talking to 368 00:14:24,010 --> 00:14:22,460 you from about a second I remember way 369 00:14:25,630 --> 00:14:24,020 back in two thousand when you came on 370 00:14:28,540 --> 00:14:25,640 stage one of the things that you 371 00:14:30,370 --> 00:14:28,550 apologized for when you showed the fire 372 00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:30,380 walking video was you said you were so 373 00:14:37,690 --> 00:14:32,000 thin in the video because you've just 374 00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:37,700 come back from India yeah yeah now I had 375 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:39,590 the pleasure of visiting India to speak 376 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:40,910 at the rationalist conference there 377 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:43,510 about all about five years ago or so and 378 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:46,490 there are a remarkable group of people 379 00:14:49,690 --> 00:14:48,170 what were your experiences when you 380 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:49,700 visited India because I find it a 381 00:14:55,780 --> 00:14:53,930 fascinating place I'm losing great deal 382 00:14:58,330 --> 00:14:55,790 of weight remain experience I did that 383 00:15:00,130 --> 00:14:58,340 Perez bro successfully as I have to say 384 00:15:01,780 --> 00:15:00,140 you do have a fantastic memory if it 385 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:01,790 could be I don't mention the fact that 386 00:15:04,660 --> 00:15:03,170 i'm actually quite thin in the fire 387 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:04,670 walking video it's not something I do 388 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:06,410 every time an nd i thought i must be 389 00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:08,210 mentioned in Sydney so amazingly you 390 00:15:13,940 --> 00:15:09,630 remember these things 391 00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:13,950 but in in India the main fisting the 392 00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:16,800 Guru's we tested one guy called Swami 393 00:15:21,620 --> 00:15:19,260 Preminger who claimed to be able to 394 00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:21,630 materialize objects in it ends and we 395 00:15:25,970 --> 00:15:23,430 texted him by putting an to a plastic 396 00:15:27,950 --> 00:15:25,980 bags and couldn't essentially pick up 397 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:27,960 the object from his clothing or hidden 398 00:15:32,330 --> 00:15:29,850 panels and under those test conditions 399 00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:32,340 he simply couldn't do it and in fact 400 00:15:36,380 --> 00:15:33,720 then again we we sort of essentially 401 00:15:39,260 --> 00:15:36,390 caught him cheating later on that was 402 00:15:41,690 --> 00:15:39,270 one investigation other words with sai 403 00:15:43,340 --> 00:15:41,700 baba where we tried to and he's a very 404 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:43,350 well-known god Matt pro the best known 405 00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:45,930 of them with a huge following I wish 406 00:15:49,940 --> 00:15:47,820 Rama kind of religious retreat it been 407 00:15:51,530 --> 00:15:49,950 an assassination attempt on him so it 408 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:51,540 was all car lock down in terms of 409 00:15:56,630 --> 00:15:54,090 security but whilst we were there the 410 00:15:59,210 --> 00:15:56,640 profession which is the Indian BBC 411 00:16:01,370 --> 00:15:59,220 essentially managed two films I barber 412 00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,380 producing a necklace and the rumor was 413 00:16:05,180 --> 00:16:03,360 they caught him cheating but the film 414 00:16:08,590 --> 00:16:05,190 had been destroyed managed to track down 415 00:16:11,660 --> 00:16:08,600 that film had had it digitally enhanced 416 00:16:13,580 --> 00:16:11,670 take out the Kree and yes indeed I think 417 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:13,590 it does show evidence of sleight of hand 418 00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:15,450 and that since appeared on on several 419 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:18,510 documentaries it my experience there was 420 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:22,050 the ace of a wonderful country be the 421 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:23,850 rationalists who are doing kind of guru 422 00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:26,730 busting and such a fantastic job under 423 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:28,470 such difficult conditions you know going 424 00:16:32,530 --> 00:16:30,690 into villages and so on showing how some 425 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:32,540 of the gurus are taking this off and 426 00:16:38,540 --> 00:16:35,490 that some of the Guru's themselves were 427 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:38,550 to be tested I mean and I think back and 428 00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:40,710 the test didn't come out in their favor 429 00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:41,940 but still the fact they were prepared to 430 00:16:45,770 --> 00:16:44,160 engage with them I think was wonderful 431 00:16:47,450 --> 00:16:45,780 so it is one of my favorite countries 432 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:47,460 and once I get the weight back on 433 00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:51,690 backwards yes yes I I too lost magically 434 00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:53,310 lost some weight when I visited India 435 00:16:57,230 --> 00:16:54,720 but it was worth it was a worthwhile 436 00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:57,240 experience even though I was really 437 00:17:01,460 --> 00:16:58,800 clever to you know I didn't drink the 438 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:01,470 water and I was very clean and very 439 00:17:08,179 --> 00:17:04,410 careful I must have well it's easy to 440 00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:08,189 happen in India all right now just to 441 00:17:13,460 --> 00:17:11,400 will be wrapping up in a moment but two 442 00:17:16,030 --> 00:17:13,470 things to sort of round this off first 443 00:17:18,140 --> 00:17:16,040 can you please discuss with our 444 00:17:20,060 --> 00:17:18,150 listeners who weren't at the last 445 00:17:21,970 --> 00:17:20,070 amazing meeting in Las Vegas your 446 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:21,980 marvelous math spoon bender 447 00:17:27,659 --> 00:17:24,650 and that might lead on to you speaking 448 00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:27,669 about your experiments with the luck 449 00:17:32,740 --> 00:17:30,350 indeed the mass boom bending resided 450 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:32,750 with Tracy King from februari marketing 451 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:35,450 and what we did was to basically give 452 00:17:40,690 --> 00:17:38,330 everyone in the room a secretly prepared 453 00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:40,700 spoon to allow them all to bend a spoon 454 00:17:44,409 --> 00:17:42,230 with the power their minds allegedly 455 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:44,419 better using some trickery and we filmed 456 00:17:49,630 --> 00:17:47,570 that and and placed it on on YouTube and 457 00:17:51,310 --> 00:17:49,640 again I think they've got several 458 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:51,320 thousand views so that was a fun thing 459 00:17:55,570 --> 00:17:53,330 to do and the idea there was really kind 460 00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,580 of reclaimed spoon bending because you 461 00:17:58,900 --> 00:17:57,679 know he did a great magic trick and and 462 00:18:01,810 --> 00:17:58,910 it really should be in the realm of 463 00:18:04,090 --> 00:18:01,820 magic and not in the paranormal so that 464 00:18:07,150 --> 00:18:04,100 was a kind of fun thing to do there in 465 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:07,160 terms of the psychology of luck I mean I 466 00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:10,010 love skepticism and I spent most of my 467 00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:12,710 working life in it by rolling with it 468 00:18:17,260 --> 00:18:15,200 sometimes is that we are terribly good 469 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:17,270 at criticizing saying these things are 470 00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:19,970 not true but not so good at saying 471 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:23,120 actually science psychology can help you 472 00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:25,370 in your life we know that most people 473 00:18:28,510 --> 00:18:27,110 believe in the paranormal because 474 00:18:29,770 --> 00:18:28,520 they've got a problem you know that 475 00:18:31,090 --> 00:18:29,780 they're not reading the journals 476 00:18:32,830 --> 00:18:31,100 convinced by the scientific evidence 477 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:32,840 they're going along for psychic because 478 00:18:36,130 --> 00:18:33,890 they've got a problem with the 479 00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:36,140 relationship or the worried about their 480 00:18:40,750 --> 00:18:38,360 career or their finances or whatever and 481 00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:40,760 so what I wanted to do with the work 482 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:43,280 into luck and the luck factor book so 483 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:46,010 really sailor we started people who 484 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:47,510 consider themselves exceptionally lucky 485 00:18:51,460 --> 00:18:49,850 and are lucky the people are there's 486 00:18:52,990 --> 00:18:51,470 nothing magical going on the lucky 487 00:18:55,030 --> 00:18:53,000 people are doing various things and 488 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:55,040 behaving various ways to create these 489 00:18:59,710 --> 00:18:57,530 apparently wonderful incidents in their 490 00:19:03,039 --> 00:18:59,720 lives understand that and you can learn 491 00:19:04,990 --> 00:19:03,049 to be lucky so is using the emotional 492 00:19:08,020 --> 00:19:05,000 hook which of the psychics and mediums 493 00:19:10,060 --> 00:19:08,030 normally have but hopefully to take 494 00:19:11,710 --> 00:19:10,070 people your science and psychology could 495 00:19:14,020 --> 00:19:11,720 help you if you understand what's going 496 00:19:16,450 --> 00:19:14,030 on and that's something I'm going to be 497 00:19:18,430 --> 00:19:16,460 doing in the next few years as well it's 498 00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:18,440 kind of more positive side of skepticism 499 00:19:23,470 --> 00:19:21,440 because I think that way we reach a much 500 00:19:25,419 --> 00:19:23,480 much wider audience rather than that 501 00:19:27,159 --> 00:19:25,429 just the kind of negativity which is 502 00:19:29,260 --> 00:19:27,169 very very important in the debunking and 503 00:19:31,539 --> 00:19:29,270 so on massively important but also 504 00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:31,549 interested in the more positive side as 505 00:19:35,740 --> 00:19:34,190 well that's a great attitude to have now 506 00:19:38,340 --> 00:19:35,750 if our listeners 507 00:19:40,660 --> 00:19:38,350 to find out more about what you do 508 00:19:44,530 --> 00:19:40,670 contact you to watch your videos where 509 00:19:46,540 --> 00:19:44,540 can they head well write the moment they 510 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:46,550 can head to my blog which is updated 511 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:48,650 pretty much on a daily basis and there's 512 00:19:53,260 --> 00:19:50,570 links to that from Richard Wiseman com 513 00:19:56,020 --> 00:19:53,270 so that's why I have all my talks and TV 514 00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:56,030 stuff and sorts of puzzles and illusion 515 00:20:00,370 --> 00:19:58,730 so that's the main place people on their 516 00:20:02,140 --> 00:20:00,380 very kind they do leave lots of comments 517 00:20:03,780 --> 00:20:02,150 sometimes really quite long comments I 518 00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:03,790 look at every single one and 519 00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:06,590 occasionally comment myself so yeah 520 00:20:10,030 --> 00:20:08,150 that's the main kind of protocol is 521 00:20:11,950 --> 00:20:10,040 becoming a bit of a hub of activity and 522 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:11,960 it would be very nice for feet see 523 00:20:15,310 --> 00:20:13,490 people come and visit again lean on him 524 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:15,320 so everybody please visit Richard 525 00:20:19,630 --> 00:20:17,690 Wiseman's website Richard Wiseman calm 526 00:20:21,580 --> 00:20:19,640 and you can follow the links and I can 527 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:21,590 sincerely recommend quirkology it's a 528 00:20:24,850 --> 00:20:22,970 fun book I mean as we were discussing 529 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:24,860 before you get a giggle right from the 530 00:20:30,670 --> 00:20:28,370 cover so so there's lots of really good 531 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:30,680 interesting stuff in the book quirkology 532 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:32,930 so richard wiseman again thank you very 533 00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:34,490 much for appearing on the skeptics 534 00:20:38,740 --> 00:20:36,320 earned and i'll be sending you a little 535 00:20:42,460 --> 00:20:38,750 parcel of goodies from australia some 536 00:20:44,350 --> 00:20:42,470 DVDs and videos you might enjoy that's 537 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:44,360 what i'm looking forward to it and thank 538 00:20:48,570 --> 00:20:46,010 you for having me and i look forward to 539 00:21:02,580 --> 00:20:48,580 coming back where another time anytime 540 00:21:07,989 --> 00:21:05,560 you're listening too far by George Arab 541 00:21:11,739 --> 00:21:07,999 you can find out more about George her 542 00:21:15,759 --> 00:21:11,749 ad by visiting his website at www Joab 543 00:21:17,649 --> 00:21:15,769 got a blog spot.com where you can even 544 00:21:19,959 --> 00:21:17,659 find the lyrics to this song try singing 545 00:21:23,229 --> 00:21:19,969 along with it of course he's singing 546 00:21:27,399 --> 00:21:23,239 about the 365 days of astronomy podcast 547 00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:27,409 one podcast every day for 2009 and you 548 00:21:34,539 --> 00:21:31,039 can find that at 365 days of astronomy 549 00:21:36,489 --> 00:21:34,549 onward God or go check it out there'll 550 00:21:43,910 --> 00:21:36,499 be a contribution by the skeptic zone in 551 00:21:50,730 --> 00:21:47,120 there by car in a day and super crazy 552 00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:50,740 farmer just Falls our way sir 553 00:22:07,049 --> 00:22:04,890 welcome to Sidney skeptics in the pub a 554 00:22:09,060 --> 00:22:07,059 great crowd tonight there's about 60 555 00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:09,070 people here I've got my little hand 556 00:22:14,460 --> 00:22:10,710 record I'm going to be running around 557 00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,470 talking to some people and then later on 558 00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:16,720 I think we've got a song or two by Dave 559 00:22:22,620 --> 00:22:19,510 a happy singer who you may remember from 560 00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:22,630 the think tank now occasional guest so 561 00:22:32,970 --> 00:22:31,120 let me see who I can find skeptics in 562 00:22:37,409 --> 00:22:32,980 the pub is going so well tonight on here 563 00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:37,419 with Joanne are you going oh well now 564 00:22:42,269 --> 00:22:40,840 you are the inspiration behind what we 565 00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:42,279 had escaped its have done recently we 566 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:45,190 put up an open letter to pharmacies out 567 00:22:49,889 --> 00:22:47,770 there pharmacist to plead with them to 568 00:22:52,139 --> 00:22:49,899 stop selling magic and magical potions 569 00:22:56,010 --> 00:22:52,149 in their shops now this is based on new 570 00:22:57,690 --> 00:22:56,020 experience um well a couple of weeks ago 571 00:23:00,810 --> 00:22:57,700 now I went into one of the local 572 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:00,820 pharmacies and I'm quite used to going 573 00:23:05,789 --> 00:23:04,090 into pharmacies and seeing you know what 574 00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:05,799 they call alternative medicines or 575 00:23:09,149 --> 00:23:07,360 natural products on the shelves but up 576 00:23:13,970 --> 00:23:09,159 until now I've only ever seen in a 577 00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:18,149 evidence-based medicines so to speak and 578 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:21,190 I was just browsing the shelves and I 579 00:23:25,049 --> 00:23:23,110 noticed that in the section where they 580 00:23:28,909 --> 00:23:25,059 keep the children's panadol Harris a 581 00:23:32,490 --> 00:23:28,919 small or ibuprofen they had placed 582 00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:32,500 homeopathic remedies some of which were 583 00:23:38,820 --> 00:23:35,110 for things like nappy rash and fairly I 584 00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:38,830 suppose mundane childhood ailments that 585 00:23:43,230 --> 00:23:40,960 apparently would but one of them was for 586 00:23:45,659 --> 00:23:43,240 fever and pain now the thing is I I am a 587 00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:45,669 registered nurse so I'm not a parent I 588 00:23:48,250 --> 00:23:46,960 don't have any experience of raising 589 00:23:50,770 --> 00:23:48,260 children but as 590 00:23:53,260 --> 00:23:50,780 submerse I certainly know that pain and 591 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:53,270 fever are pretty serious concerns either 592 00:23:59,200 --> 00:23:57,170 in a child or an adult and so as a 593 00:24:01,810 --> 00:23:59,210 skeptic my curiosity of course got the 594 00:24:04,270 --> 00:24:01,820 better of me and I thought I'd look at a 595 00:24:06,490 --> 00:24:04,280 bit closer at these products and they 596 00:24:12,030 --> 00:24:06,500 were very much being promoted as an 597 00:24:14,980 --> 00:24:12,040 alternative to the evidence based 598 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:14,990 medicines that we would give patients 599 00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:18,260 cool things yeah and I actually 600 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:20,480 questioned the pharmacist about this and 601 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:22,370 I said the temperature you know would 602 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:24,290 you be recommending these products for 603 00:24:29,710 --> 00:24:28,010 your your client and he's there he did 604 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:29,720 sort of give me a definite answer but he 605 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:32,690 said that time you practice 606 00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:35,330 evidence-based pharmacy and I found that 607 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:36,860 quite interesting but because I thought 608 00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:38,930 as a pharmacist if you practice 609 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:41,600 evidence-based pharmacy and why have you 610 00:24:47,410 --> 00:24:43,970 got these parts on yourself because as 611 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:47,420 we know homeopathic remedies are in no 612 00:24:52,690 --> 00:24:50,690 way evidence-based and here's his 613 00:24:56,290 --> 00:24:52,700 response was that it was really a 614 00:25:00,100 --> 00:24:56,300 decision of the owner of the party not 615 00:25:01,570 --> 00:25:00,110 himself as an employee of crazy and I 616 00:25:04,130 --> 00:25:01,580 found this quite worrying because 617 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:04,140 certainly pharmacy 618 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:06,210 as professional members of the help 619 00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:12,650 community one you know as as a 620 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:16,080 non-medical person in society going into 621 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:18,330 a pharmacy I think you know we've always 622 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:19,770 seen pharmacist as being health 623 00:25:24,290 --> 00:25:22,130 professionals who we would expect to be 624 00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:24,300 knowledgeable about the products that 625 00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:26,400 they're providing to us and certainly 626 00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:28,320 have real knowledge of them above what 627 00:25:35,930 --> 00:25:31,200 we would have is lay individuals and the 628 00:25:38,210 --> 00:25:35,940 fact that they are either promoting or 629 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:38,220 providing or making accessible products 630 00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:40,890 which potentially are unsafe is quite 631 00:25:45,050 --> 00:25:42,960 worrying now particularly with something 632 00:25:49,790 --> 00:25:45,060 like this homeopathic remedy for pain 633 00:25:52,250 --> 00:25:49,800 and fever I felt that a parent going 634 00:25:54,260 --> 00:25:52,260 into a pharmacy would see this product 635 00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:54,270 on the shelf and I mean interestingly 636 00:25:59,870 --> 00:25:56,700 the way they're promoted you know that 637 00:26:02,390 --> 00:25:59,880 the colors are all very soothing it's 638 00:26:04,970 --> 00:26:02,400 all under this banner of a safer 639 00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:04,980 alternative and natural alternative and 640 00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:07,590 for a parent who's making before parent 641 00:26:13,070 --> 00:26:09,440 who is concerned about the child safety 642 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:13,080 making a responsible choice for one's 643 00:26:17,330 --> 00:26:15,810 child they're going to be happen to you 644 00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:17,340 is what is promoted as a safe 645 00:26:24,020 --> 00:26:22,230 alternative it went in fact for a child 646 00:26:26,570 --> 00:26:24,030 with the potentially serious illness 647 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:26,580 treating pain or fever with effectively 648 00:26:31,610 --> 00:26:29,130 sugar pills or water is really making a 649 00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:31,620 very dangerous decision I really I 650 00:26:34,130 --> 00:26:32,880 really felt at that point that it was 651 00:26:37,850 --> 00:26:34,140 something I want you to bring to the 652 00:26:39,410 --> 00:26:37,860 attention of of the pharmaceutical body 653 00:26:41,490 --> 00:26:39,420 because they really are the ones who 654 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:41,500 have the drop the capacity 655 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:43,570 to influence well because because of 656 00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:45,850 those concerns it occurred to me that 657 00:26:50,910 --> 00:26:48,880 this is a very good opportunity for us 658 00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:50,920 and so the Australian to get pics have 659 00:26:57,090 --> 00:26:52,870 composed a letter addressed to 660 00:26:58,290 --> 00:26:57,100 pharmacies and that's probably valid all 661 00:27:01,070 --> 00:26:58,300 around the world although it says 662 00:27:05,010 --> 00:27:01,080 Australian honors if you go to ww 663 00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:05,020 skeptics calm you you can download this 664 00:27:09,150 --> 00:27:06,910 open letter print it out and present it 665 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:09,160 to your Hamas's I think that's something 666 00:27:14,670 --> 00:27:11,770 that I'm anyone who has was noticed 667 00:27:17,370 --> 00:27:14,680 these things in their pharmacy would be 668 00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:17,380 wise to take advantage of because I 669 00:27:20,910 --> 00:27:18,880 think it certainly any health 670 00:27:23,460 --> 00:27:20,920 professionals who have noticed the 671 00:27:26,670 --> 00:27:23,470 sources to do that and I think certainly 672 00:27:29,730 --> 00:27:26,680 as a nurse myself the nursing profession 673 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:29,740 is in a position to you know we have a 674 00:27:36,030 --> 00:27:31,210 great deal of influence over our 675 00:27:37,980 --> 00:27:36,040 patients and and so you know I think 676 00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:37,990 that that's something that we would be 677 00:27:43,860 --> 00:27:39,580 in a position to take advantage of and 678 00:27:45,060 --> 00:27:43,870 to use that and in nursing in I think we 679 00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:45,070 have a responsibility as health 680 00:27:49,470 --> 00:27:46,480 professionals to be promoting 681 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:49,480 evidence-based practice yeah and in any 682 00:27:54,660 --> 00:27:51,370 of our interactions with our patients to 683 00:27:58,410 --> 00:27:54,670 be communicating to them what is 684 00:28:01,620 --> 00:27:58,420 responsible in their health care so for 685 00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:01,630 example when a nurse conduct a health 686 00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:03,910 assessment of a patient you know 687 00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:05,440 questioning them about the alternative 688 00:28:10,350 --> 00:28:08,710 remedies that they may be using I don't 689 00:28:14,850 --> 00:28:10,360 think it's necessarily the right 690 00:28:16,530 --> 00:28:14,860 situation to be criticizing a patient's 691 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:16,540 choices because I think that one of the 692 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:18,410 things that we need to be 693 00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:21,930 aware of is our patients vulnerability 694 00:28:26,270 --> 00:28:23,880 and I think that that's really actually 695 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:26,280 what this comes down to is that anyone 696 00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:28,770 going into a pharmacy making a choice 697 00:28:37,010 --> 00:28:31,110 about a medicine is in a vulnerable 698 00:28:40,190 --> 00:28:37,020 position and when pharmacists are making 699 00:28:43,550 --> 00:28:40,200 a recommendation of a particular item 700 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:43,560 now if there is that it then abyss that 701 00:28:46,190 --> 00:28:44,970 they sort of have to draw that line 702 00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:46,200 between where they're a businessperson 703 00:28:51,230 --> 00:28:49,200 and where there that's true because I 704 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:51,240 think there's perhaps I don't know what 705 00:28:55,820 --> 00:28:53,010 you might call a bit of confidence there 706 00:29:00,530 --> 00:28:55,830 they have a they have a vested interest 707 00:29:02,330 --> 00:29:00,540 in the financial part of their their 708 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:02,340 business and but they also have a 709 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:04,290 responsibility to the people coming into 710 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:06,810 their pharmacy to provide them with 711 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:09,330 information yeah and I think that's 712 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:11,130 perhaps where things are falling down is 713 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:13,290 that the information that people are 714 00:29:19,130 --> 00:29:15,810 getting is not actually allowing them to 715 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:19,140 make informed choices and particularly 716 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:22,170 when that information is presented in a 717 00:29:28,970 --> 00:29:26,250 way that is misleading then and using 718 00:29:30,860 --> 00:29:28,980 fear mongering tactics as well then 719 00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:30,870 you're leaving vulnerable people in a 720 00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:32,580 position where they are perhaps either 721 00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:36,660 going to end up having a severe physical 722 00:29:41,660 --> 00:29:39,150 consequence or just making a choice that 723 00:29:46,130 --> 00:29:41,670 is perhaps uninformed and there may lead 724 00:29:48,650 --> 00:29:46,140 on to other potentially dangerous for 725 00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:48,660 Sorenson you just somebody's not into a 726 00:29:53,180 --> 00:29:51,600 pharmacy saw this happening but you've 727 00:29:55,460 --> 00:29:53,190 done something about it at least you can 728 00:29:57,890 --> 00:29:55,470 express your opinion to us and we've 729 00:30:00,290 --> 00:29:57,900 been able to show mass communicator so 730 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:00,300 well done okay about the idea it's 731 00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:03,090 fantastic we love it and it inspired us 732 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:04,710 to have more open letters to other 733 00:30:16,010 --> 00:30:07,250 people for which we have concerns 734 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:18,690 odeon my left or your something even a 735 00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:22,090 little pull all your people over here in 736 00:30:31,650 --> 00:30:25,120 the fact you only hear a song that I 737 00:30:33,870 --> 00:30:31,660 haven't heard before thank you almost to 738 00:30:34,980 --> 00:30:33,880 the people oh you guys over here jus 739 00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:34,990 wanna hear some of us know even being 740 00:30:40,410 --> 00:30:38,320 written yet yeah okay this is my next 741 00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:40,420 big hit this is some about a good what I 742 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:42,310 want you guys to tell me over here on 743 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:43,690 the left you guys over here overlapping 744 00:30:54,050 --> 00:30:45,370 you guys the back I want you to tell me 745 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:54,060 what the name of this girl is dhryn off 746 00:30:58,890 --> 00:30:57,250 Romelu bring up okay that's all and all 747 00:31:00,900 --> 00:30:58,900 you people down here comes to my right 748 00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:00,910 can you tell me what kind of job this 749 00:31:09,510 --> 00:31:08,110 bill doesn't you can blur I'm going to 750 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:09,520 take two or three but you for your woman 751 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:11,650 okay this is my next week if this is 752 00:31:34,690 --> 00:32:10,260 I don't know what I do 753 00:32:19,690 --> 00:32:13,900 loggin doesn't meet up with all the 754 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:19,700 paper turn out like magic in me so I 755 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:22,850 felt like it too 756 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:25,890 and I was 757 00:32:35,070 --> 00:32:31,710 I went and said I have my able to look 758 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:48,760 the reaction 759 00:33:02,360 --> 00:32:50,990 sorry I'm inviting some of the raffle 760 00:33:08,030 --> 00:33:02,370 basis so I took your candles students in 761 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:08,040 my ear amplifier to the end and I door 762 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:20,250 here in the end of my children my in rum 763 00:33:27,919 --> 00:33:24,090 bottle either by default he ever bought 764 00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:36,390 Oh 765 00:34:19,910 --> 00:34:18,200 hi darling anti baby for love now if 766 00:34:22,340 --> 00:34:19,920 you'd like to join us here for Sydney 767 00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:22,350 skeptics in the pub best thing you can 768 00:34:29,170 --> 00:34:25,440 do is join the Sydney skeptics meetup 769 00:34:48,350 --> 00:34:29,180 group and that's skeptics got meetup.com 770 00:34:53,460 --> 00:34:50,940 well that's the skeptic Zone episode 771 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:53,470 number 24 the sixth of March thanks for 772 00:34:57,930 --> 00:34:55,210 listening next week we'll have our 773 00:35:00,570 --> 00:34:57,940 regular lineup with dr. Richie reports 774 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:00,580 the roundup with my koala Han grain of 775 00:35:05,550 --> 00:35:02,530 salt with Iran's to give and of course 776 00:35:07,530 --> 00:35:05,560 the think tank and if you're looking for 777 00:35:09,930 --> 00:35:07,540 something to read between now and then 778 00:35:12,570 --> 00:35:09,940 you can subscribe to the skeptic 779 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:12,580 magazine the Journal of Australian 780 00:35:20,370 --> 00:35:14,890 skeptics and you can do that by visiting 781 00:35:22,890 --> 00:35:20,380 w WC epitaxy oh my you while you're 782 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:22,900 there you can download that open letter 783 00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:24,250 to pharmacist we were talking about 784 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:26,830 earlier until next week this is Richard 785 00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:28,570 Saunders signing off from Sydney 786 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:33,790 Australia you've been listening to the 787 00:35:41,310 --> 00:35:38,050 skeptic zone visit our website at wwc a 788 00:35:45,290 --> 00:35:41,320 petting zoo TV for comments contacts and 789 00:35:45,300 --> 00:35:56,210 skin